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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  March 27, 2011 10:00am-11:00am EDT

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ferraro ferraro, an amazing woman who broke a barrier and went on to break many more. those are your stop stories today, cnn will have complete coverage of the president's address tomorrow evening. i'm candy crowley in washington, up next for you're viewers here in united states, fareed zakaria gps. >> this is gps, welcome to all of you in the united states and those joining us from around the world. i'm gloria borger, fareed is off this week but you'll see his conversation with malcolm gladwell later in the broadcast. the topic at hand today, libya. was action the right choice for coalition nations? what happens if a no fly zone succeeds and gadhafi stays in power? and who sets the mission for nato? the conversation starts right
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now. let's get straight to our panel, richard has is the president on the council on foreign relations and also the former u.s. ambassador to iraq and former director of national intelligence. robert kagan is a senior fellow with the brookings institution and jane harman from california who chaired the subcommittee on counter terrorism and intelligence and now the new president and ceo of the woodrow wilson center. ambassador, i'm going to start with you because you have been generally supportive of this action in libya. there is an international coalition against gadhafi and nato is assuming responsibility for the no-fly zone, although how that's going to be worked
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out is a bit murky. let me start by asking you, is this mission this new world order, if you will, going as you would have liked? >> well, i think it's going probably about what the way you would have expected it to. the command and control arrangements are being worked out. the opposition has now con solid dating itself in benghazi, whereas a week ago it looked like it was on the verge of extinction and let's not forget those were the events that propelled this rather rapid turnabout in our position. i think what you're getting is a paused situation where the opposition can regroup and plan its next steps. the international community can get itself organized in terms of command and control and president obama can put our
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country in a position of always being in the lead and out in front, playing more of a support role together with nato, the selected arab countries and the international community generally. >> well, let me go to richard has, you've been critical of this and called this a war of choice and see how this is unfolding. what is your take on the way this is going? >> well, it absolutely is a war of choice, gloria, my view an ill-advised one speaking personal because i don't think the u.s. interests at stake are vital. given all that's going on there, much less the rest of the world, i also think the difficult part of this processor this intervention have yet to come. there's the scenarios where the intervention quote, unquote succeeds, either you have a cease fire and then what do you do because you have opposing
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armies in place. or you could have situations where the intervention fails and you have all sorts of questions then about what the united states does with gadhafi and even if it does succeed again, then we have all sorts of fundamental issues about who it is we're helping and are we so sure the opposition will necessarily pursue an agenda that is in the interest of the united states or in the interest of the people of libya. i'm very unkcomfortable with suh a large commitment given these unknowns. >> jane, you want to talk? >> our deputy national security adviser called the position preb nits za on steroids and to remine mind viewers that is about what happened in bosnia. we had a no-fly zone and there was a massacre and we only ended that conflict when we armed the
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bosnians and then richard holbrook, our fabulously talented ambassador who died a few months ago, negotiated a settlement. why do i mention this? i mention this because there is no magic in a no-fly zone. i believe that the purposes of this mission have not been adequately articulated yet. and it also is not the late '90s. this is post 9/11 where we're involved in two interventions in muslim countries. i think the conflict matters a lot and i'm not sure there was enough thought given to that. >> let me bring that to bob kagan. there is a conflict about what the mission is. the united states says gadhafi must go. members of the coalition say this is strictly a humanitarian mission. how can the coalition work together when they can't agree on what the goals are? >> well the united states is not the only government that has
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said that gadhafi must go. the way things are being finnessed with nato in charge of the military operation overall but it's clear that the united states and united kingdom and france are free to do what they think is necessary. i think it's clear that first of all, it's not just a no-fly zone. we've got coalition forces attacking gadhafi's tanks and artillery on the ground. the goal is clearly to help the opposition. i think we need to do more. we should arming the opposition because we can't end up at the end of the day with gadhafi in power. i think there's far too -- >> how do we know? >> gloria we start wars, whether it's world war i or ii, that would be truly debilitating. we would never do anything if we did that. i think there's a reasonable
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assumption that gadhafi's forces are ultimately going to break from him if it looks like their lives are on the line. i think we have to have a little patience. this has been going on for five days and people are running and screaming as if we already failed. i think a little patience is necessary and is an important interest of ours by the way. what's happening in the middle east is connected to what's going on in libya if we stand by and let a dictator in the region like gadhafi slaughter his people, that's a terrible setback and not in america's interest. >> richard haass calls it a war of choice. you don't think so? >> of course it's a war of choice. 99% of wars have been wars of choice. i can barely think of a war we fought that was not a war of choice. is it a good choice or bad choice, richard seems to think it is the end of i decision. i think it is. >> i think the united states has
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had a number of wars, it's a necessity beyond world war ii and the gulf war -- >> how did the korean war end? >> it ended just fine, the mistake in the korean war was what began as a war of necessary sesty then we turned it into a war of choice and it became extraordinarily expensive. there's a very high standard particularly given what jane har man said, the war in iraq and what became the war in afghanistan when this administration expanded it. let me finish, if the interests aren't vital and you have other policy options you have to think twice. inmy view the interests are clearly less than vital. i disagree with what happened in libya will have a fundamental impact on what happened in bahrain or syria, i simply
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disagree with that analysis. and again, i'm very uncomfortable with launching a military intervention given the fact that we're setting in motion a chain of events. it's not simply that we don't know. we have no reason to be confident that the people we are trying to help prevail will institute a form of governance that will necessarily be in our or libya's interest. >> that raises the question about the rebels. who are they and let me go to the ambassador and jane harman, are we sure as richard haass asked the question, sure that the rebels in the end are going to be exactly what we want to have there? >> well, first to bob kagan's point about certainty, we're not sure. we don't -- very often we have to make these kinds of decisions, particularly when it
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involume's conflict, we're not entirely certain of the shape of the organization so far but one of important things we need to do is get our dip plot mattic reputation down to benghazi and start dealing directly with the people and get our own assessment of what the opposition is shaping up to become. the question of the vitality of the interest, if i could make one point about what richard said earlier. i would agree that the interest may not be entirely vital. let's not forget that in terms of proportionality here we're not an intervening in libya at the level that we intervened in iraq or afghanistan. it's a limited action by us. it's a limited military action within a broader political context. and we are also following and going along with the lead of
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other countries whose vital interests are probably more affected than ours, namely the european and arab states. >> we'll talk more about that, whether or not the united states if it's part of a coalition can ever actually not lead. people mostly assume we are leading. i know jane har man wants to get in. we'll get to her after the break. there's so much more to talk about. i'd also want to mention, if you're here looking for fareed's take on the events, we have your fill. make sure you go out and pick up the latest issue of "time" on the news stands right now and you can find it at time.com or on the gps website, which is at cnn.com/gps. we'll be right back. homeowners -- rates have been going up, but you can still refinance to a fixed rate
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basic. preferred. at meineke i have options on oil changes. and now i get free roadside assistance with preferred or supreme. my money. my choice. my meineke. welcome back. fareed zakaria will join us later in the program. right now though our topic is libya. jane harman, should we ever begin a military operation without knowing exactly how we intend to stand down? >> well, let me respond in two ways. first of all, my colleague at the wilson center, eric david miller is saying that we're no
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longer talking about how we win any of these interventions, we're always talking about how we can leave them. and that projects a certain weakness. in this case, however, i don't think our objective ever was to win. and i have been thinking about president obama's call for regime change here. i think a lesson we should have learned from iraq, which was a war of choice and which turned out -- was prosecuted fairly poorly and took our eye off afghanistan which was a war of necessity inmy view. a less son we should have learned, we shouldn't be calling for regime change. that's the call of local populations. our objective out to be good governance and transparency and anty corruption objectives and political space in participation. in local populations achieve those things, they should decide who should lead them. we're in a transformation in the greater middle east, all of the
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countries will change their governments and we can't view libya as a one-off that will turn out -- this could be a very long intervention run by nato, not by us, but we have a lot of expenses involved in being in nato this is a zero sum game in terms of military assets. whatever we're putting through this war, we don't have to put in somewhere else in a very dangerous and changing world. >> let me suppose this question. what if gadhafi does agree to a cease fire and the united states is out there saying gadhafi must go. will this mission then be seen as a failure? let me go to you, bob. >> i think it's a failure if gadhafi remains in power or libya is divided into two separate states, i don't think any cease fire would last for very long and we would be in a constant state of civil war.
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we shouldn't be in the process of supporting a civil libya. i want to make a comment. this is almost entirely a naval operation. our navy is not heavily engaged in iraq or afghanistan. this is not a major american mission. this is not a third war like iraq and afghanistan. i really think it's somewhat it would be deeping. >> it does speak to our leadership in the world, doesn't it? >> this leadership question is kind of a silly debate we're having. i think it's very good that we have got strong european partners who have been willing to deal with the problem, which afterall is much closer to them than to us. it is necessary for the united states to play a leadership in
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diplomacy, the united states played a critical role in getting nato motivated and played the obviously necessary role in terms of opening then good, i'm glad that the french and british are taking over a big part of the load. >> but let me go to the ambassador and then to richard haass here. as a result of this coalition, you have to kind of live with a certain amount of ambiguity that we're not used to living with when we're part of military action. and congress wants answers and timetables and solutions and that doesn't seem to be something the administration is able to deliver right now. first to the ambassador then richard. >> we're so used to doing things unilaterally that even when that kind of unilateralist approach has come under kris criticism, sometimes it's hard to put ourselves in the other frame of
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mind. i think it is a very interesting experiment, if you will, after the iraq and afghanistan adventures and we're working with others. i think we have to look also at the possibility of some kind of a united nations role here. it's not inconceivable to me, for example, that at some point the u.n. security council might vote for the establishment of some kind of peace keeping force in benghazi, for example, with a robust mandate to facilitate the eventual political accommodation in libya. >> richard haass? >> any time you've got a coalition it complicates to some extent the military operations and it my indicatcomplicates t y diplomacy. i think bob kagan and john negroponte made points that are
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worth reiterating, you could have a situation where gadhafi complies with the u.n. resolution. you could then have an awkward situation where the opposition doesn't then what does the united states and world do? if he does, it's quite possible you will need boots on the ground to separate the sides because the last thing you want in the name of humanitarian intervention is a prolonged civil war. >> whose boots? >> the president has said we want to get rid of the regime, which was a mistake because it makes it harder to add the diplomatic intervention. you'll probably need european boots and possibly some arab or international whether under blue helmets at the u.n. or otherwise, it's very hard for me to see a scenario where ultimately you do not need some sort of international presence to provide order throughout this country. neither the regime nor the opposition i would argue is going to be any time soon in a
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position to essentially establish and police the sovereignty of the area. libya with ungoverned spaces and terrorists can put down roots. as bad as the situation has been, you don't need a big imagination to see things getting even worse. >> you don't. >> and i totally agree with that and would point out that both the african union and arab league who were according to president obama some of the initial inputs that justified the action we took in support of a no-fly zone, are not really participating in the no-fly zone. the uae and quauter will provide fighter jets. there's no buy-in by the organizations and it's yet unclear what tomorrow, monday's action is going to be in terms of a more robust nato presence. we don't know what the nato objectives will be although we know they are taking over command from the united states. my final point is and i made
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this over and over again about limited brain cells. yes, you're right, bob, that we mostly have our navy in place, although imagine if the straits of hormuz were blocked we might need our navy there. we've got a lot of assets offshore libya. but my point is that brain cells are limited. if we have most of the white house tied up trying to make this come out right, by the way, what about the unrest, the transformation sweeping every country we can name in the greater middle east? >> that's right. jane, actually that's exactly what we want to talk about in the next segment. i think the question we need to ask is, is the focus on libya becoming a distraction? what about syria and yemen and bahrain? what's next in those countries and are we paying enough attention? coming up.
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[ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna...
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and welcome back to gps. we were just talking about whether the focus on libya is causing the united states not to focus enough on the rest of the world and the seismic events going on in the middle east. let me go to you first, richard haass. do you consider this a strategic
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distraction in a way? >> the short answer is yes. there's only so much bandwidth to the extent you investor focus on one thing it leaves you less time and policy maker time is often important at not a question of military assets, there's diplomatic assets. that said i'm hoping the administration does focus on all it can do encourage change in syria and iran and perhaps more than anything to focus on two countries, saudi arabia and egypt, those are the twin pillars of middle eastern stability. i worry about the political process taking place in egypt, the economic problems that the country continues to face and i worry about what the saudis are doing in bahrain because i think it's narrowed the possibility of political compromise there and ultimately what that might mean for saud did youi arabia itself >> let me go to you bob kagan on
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this, if you're sitting in iran and see what's going on, not only in the rest of the middle east but particularly in libya, what are you thinking? >> i think the question is, is iran immune from this tidal wave that's sweeping through the region? and i think surely the answer is no. if i were setting in tehran in the government right now i would be shaking in my boots. with syria now under tremendous political pressure, i don't think there's any government in the region that's immune. one of the truly positive outcomes of this entire arab spring may be finally a real pressure for political change in iran and i think we should be supporting that. i don't think by the way, what's happening in libya has prevented the administration from taking egypt seriously. egypt is the most important game. i'm not thrilled with absolutely every detail going on in egypt but otherwise i would say it's going fairly smoothly and of course the economics are important. i think the administration is looking carefully at that. >> jane harman, can we walk and
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chew gum at the same time? >> let's hope so. the government of iran is not just sitting in iran, they are playing in all of this, playing in bahrain and lebanon and playing in gaza, arms with iranian markings were picked up by the israeli brz they went into gaza. they are playing in egypt. we should assume this may not come out to be an arab spring. it could be an arab winter. and that would happen if we take our eye off what i think is our central problem here, which is a -- an expanding iranian over the region. let me mention yemen, yemen is the place where in the boonies we have the folks plotting to attack us. the christmas bomber was trained in yemen. al aulaqi lives in yemen and called for attacks against our country and in our country.
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the fellow writing this english language magazine called inspire which teaches you how to make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom is in yemen. i worry about the threat to our homeland being greatest from yemen than any other place. >> let me put that to ambassador negroponte. put on your director of national intelligence hat and talk about what jane harman is talking about, the fact that yemen is a haven for al qaeda and this could be distracting us from paying enough attention to that. >> first of all, i think we do have the band width to deal with libya and these other situations in the middle east. i think yemen definitely is a concern both its inher ent political stability and the fact there might be a political vacuum there if the president falls or the situation falls
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into disarray, just create more opportunities for the extremists. but i would agree with both richard and bob that egypt is probably the single most important country and i think it's vitally important that the political process there evolve in a satisfactory way. this is the largest arab population in the middle east. and i think it's critically important it succeed. and the last point i would make is that the reason bahrain is so important, if that situation goes awry, then i think that could have serious implications for saudi arabia. >> ambassador, thank you so much to all of my guests for joining us. up next on "gps", fareed is back with the take on the facebook and social media effect and he'll bring malcolm gladwide into the situation.
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[ cellphone buzzes ] you just texted me to read the memo? unlimited text too. we really need you on this conference call. rick, it's lyle. rickster? i'm here. there he is! [ male announcer ] switch to sprint and get unlimited 4g data on a wide range of devices. sprint 4g, it's business without limits. trouble hearing on the phone? only on the now network. visit sprintrelay.com. candy crowley. rebels in libya are claiming victory in the key oil town. robert gates tells cbs there's evidence moammar gadhafi is faking civilian casualties by coalition air strikes. >> we do have a lot of intelligence reporting about gadhafi taking the bodies of people he's killed and putting them at the sites where we've attacked. we've been extremely careful in this military effort. >> the air strikes are continuing as nato prepares to
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take command of the libyan mission. tokyo's electric power company is retesting the results at the number two reactor after the country's nuclear safety agency questioned some extremely high radiation figures. earlier the company said radiation levels in contaminated water were ten times the norm at that reactor. the company appears to be backing away from those figures. scattered violence broke out after thousands of people protested spending cuts in london. more than 80 people, including 31 police officers were injured. police arrested 214 people. california is recovering from heavy rain storms. flooding hit the town of capitoli yesterday. >> those are your top stories. up next, more fareed zakaria gps and howie curtz's interview with former anchor ted koppel.
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my take. one question that sits behind the turmoil in the middle east,
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what was the role technology played? was this a facebook revolution. i'm talk about this with malcolm gladwell in a few moments. but i thought you might want to hear my own take. i try to hear what guests have to say rather than constantly interrupting with my own views. it's important to remember how recent the entire revolution is. 15 years ago in tune is ya you'll you could read hear or see was television propaganda. a daily catalog of the great deeds of hosni mubarak or whoever. the first great revolution was the satellite tv revolution which brought images and information and real reporting to the arab people for the first time. it was not just cnn, it became al jazeera and all of the other channels that broke the state's monopoly of information. the regime might not wanted
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people to know about 2005 protests for democracy in egypt but people learned of it any way then became the internet revolution which gave people the opportunity to post information amon nusly. there was a superb website which would make daily fun put out by egypt's state newspaper. finally the social networking revolution which allowed people to share information and opinions and organizing ideas. it helped them organize. they could do this not just using a computer, which is still a luxury product for the wealthy in the arab world but with a cell phone which is a bisic necessity that everyone owns. the combination of these three revolutions was to move information from what i call a one to many system to many to many system. the revolutions began by seizing the radio station or tv station
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to allow the new regime to broadcast its message to the masses. controlled information from one to many. but today's technology is many to many. in the internet everyone is connected but no one is in control. this system helps the individual. it breaks the regime's monopoly on information and allows people to organize and refute the lies put out by a regime. it's not a silver bullet. clearly today's information technology has the effect of disinterest mediating. it breaks down hire arkys and monopolys. let's get started. and we are now joined by malcolm gladwell. >> pleasure to have you on. >> glad to be back. >> you've written lots of things about all kinds of subjects but
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one that caused a certain amount of controversy has been your claim that facebook has nothing to do with revolutions. that's putting it a little strongly but in light of all of things happening in the arab world, you have been unimpressed of social media as a way of creating political discontent. why? >> the article was written back in the summer before this happened. i've been as dumb struck as everybody else by what happened in the middle east. i would love to kind of -- people are going to do that over the next course of the months and years, what exact role did the new tools play in shaping these uprisings? but i can't look in the past at social revolutions and see examples of cases where people had a problem under dire circumstances of getting lots of people together to voice their concerns, right?
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i mean, in east germany, a million people gathered in the streets of berlin. the percentage of people in east berlin in east germany who even had a telephone in 1939 was 13%. i mean, in cases where there are no tools of communication, people still get together. i don't see that as being a -- in looking at history, i don't see the absence of efficient tools of communication as being a limiting factor on the ability for people to social -- >> isn't there a difference between the technology in the past which was one two many, you had a radio station and you broadcast to lots of people and information technology today which is sort of many to many. and therefore, it is much more difficult for i rea regime to control information to prop pull gate its stories. it feels like it changes something, that they used to be a kind of method of propaganda,
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which was in the old days the revolutionaries wanted to take over the radio. >> there is something absolutely, you could make the opposite argument. some new technologies offer dictators -- give them the potential to crackdown in ways they couldn't crackdown before. and the other thing i would say is that that you know, the previous paraphernali pair dimef you look at the way the civil rights movement manipulated, but collaboratively used the mass media in the 60s, it's extraordinary. media ee fusion in a way that made their own cause a much stronger than it would have been
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otherwise. in '68 in birmingham, they were able to -- the civil rights movement, all they had to do was capture the three networks. if you could capture the interest of life magazine and cbs and nbc and to some extent abc in that era, you were home. that was it. right? four networks or platforms. today there's thousands of them. you can't capture and commandeer and craft your message in the same way you could. for everything that looks like it's a step forward, there's another thing that says, actually there was a cost involved. i don't know whether -- what i don't know is whether the balance of benefits and costs to the new technology will work out in the favor of the o pressed or whether they will work out in the favor of the opresser, that's what we're going to figure out when we look at the middle east.
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>> in the next step going forward in the middle east, we face the challenge that you were describing, which is for these revolutions to be successful, the oppressed have to have some type of political organization. they have to be able to replace what the regimes or elements of the regime they are trying to take over and there what you look at in that piece is the civil rights movement. you point out for all of the fact it was very much about equality and about ee gal tear yanism. this was a tightly controlled centralized organization. it was not the kind of thing that is about a bunch of people on facebook. >> it was the most extraordinarily disciplined. it was a -- >> sort of a lennonist organization, tightly controlled and everything was scripted. >> that has nothing -- that's not made easier or worse by
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facebook or twitter, it has nothing to do with it. that's sort of my -- i'm a little bit skeptical at some of the more grand ioss claims on behalf of social media because i come back to this position. the real work is elsewhere. my question is not can you reach someone in two seconds. fine. have you done the 20 years of preparation necessary to build a coherent movement? and when you look at the really successful revolutions, they've done that, right? castro did it. the civil rights movement in america did it. and interestingly i was on a panel with john lewis, the great civil rights leader a couple of weeks ago and asked him, looking back on -- how would you have done with the benefit of behind sight, how would you have done things differently? >> i think we actually needed more ideal logical kind of
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sophistication and rig or. they didn't lack for an ability to reach people and coordinate people and get the message out, logistics want a problem. to him the problem was we could have even spent more time in kind of -- he was particularly interested in this motion that they should have spent more time elaborating and deepening their understanding of the principles of nonviolence. to to them was the great lost opportunity. i thought that was fascinating. knowing all that he knows how about modern technologies and what he really really wanted was more kind of thought and patience and sophistication in thinking about what they stood for.
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time now for the segment that makes you go, what in the world. you'll often hear the magazine market is fairly saturated and a tough industry to break into. one group thinks differently. al qaeda. that's right.
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the terrorist group led by osama bin laden. last year their media wing debuted a glossy english language magazine called inspire. as we told you at the time, it had all the works, letter from the editor, feature stories, an article called i'm proud to be a traitor to america. teaching you how to make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom and so on. well, they're back. the marketing guys at al qaeda have identified another gap in the market. they've got the want to be jihadty, english speaking male market covered now they are after ladies who launch, launched terror attacks that is. it is being dubbed cosmo for waziristan. the cover story, meeting the wife and the team of gps has been flipping through and translating the more interesting
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pieces. page 13, while elle or kosmoe may have steps on a perfect tan, they steps on has had. it tells jihaddy janes they have the right to buy jewelry but must sell it off to port jihad. there are beauty tips. avoid the sun if you minimize leaving home and so on. the grooming advice aside, this is a magazine that's actively call on women to support terrorism. now women have long been used as sub versive, sometimes counter intuitive options to launch terror attacks, that's not new. basically al qaeda has gone from conducting the most horrific attacks, september 11th almost ten years ago, to launching fluffy magazines. the recent events in the middle east which have been completely overwhelming to al qaeda have
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shown that regular arabs want jobs and democracy more than they want an islamic caliphate. women are part of that yearning for change. they played a key role in the changes that have taken place from egypt to tunisia. they are continuing to play a role in bahrain and even libya. if al qaeda is trying to reach that particular market, arab women and its best effort is this, advice on how to get hitched to a terrorist, it makes one wonder, the world must be a safer place. we'll be right back. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor and protein to help protect, preserve,
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and promote muscle health. keeps you from getting soft. [ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! p.a.: it's a four-bedroom traditional home on an acre-and-a-half landscaped yard. the master suite has two walk-in closets and a completely updated master bath. there's a totally renovated chef's kitchen, with updated stainless steel appliances, granite countertops and a butler's pantry. it's got a screened-in back porch, plenty of storage and a large backyard. it's the perfect home. in excellent condition, and ready to move in. anytime, anywhere. our agents help guide you to the smartest decisions. coldwell banker, we never stop moving.
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constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. [ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna...
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is your internet feeling
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sluggish, probably not if you're in south korea? their broadband is fast and getting faster. our question of the week, by the end of 2012, every home in south korea will have broadband which is how many times faster than the u.s. average? . a 2, b, 20. c-200. d, 2,000. don't forget to check out our podcast. you can sub describe on i tunes as well and it is free. our book of the week happens to be a picture book. two for the price of one, which is zero. the book is called, "don't get me wrong" if you're a citizen of the world which you probably are, you might want to take notes. it is all about how different hand gestures mean different
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things in different places. for instance, here in the states, in you want two sugars in your coffee, you might make this guess tour. but in many northern european nations instead of doing that, you would do this to signature fi two. and that same gesture means eight in china. and the same hand signal with the little movement added means not good in italy. put those fingers on your forehead and it means loser in the u.k. and kenya. let's go back to italy. i would suggest be very careful with your gestures there. george w. bush and his wife laura may have made enemied out of married italian men in 2005. why? they flashed the cameras with the symbol of the texas long horns, the hook em horns. in some parts of the world it's the symbol for rock on. in italy it means your wife is cheating on you. by the way,
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